Between Two Advisors - A Conversation with Matt Halloran

In this engaging episode of Between Two Advisors, we welcome Matt Halloran, a professional therapist turned advisor to financial advisors and accomplished author. Matt’s unique journey takes center stage as he shares how he unexpectedly became “Santa Claus” and what led him to a successful career in financial advising.  We dive into his latest book, Shut the F Up and Listen, which explores the transformative power of listening and communication in both personal and professional relationships. Matt offers practical advice on decision-making and taking the first steps toward achieving big goals. He also opens up about the rewarding yet challenging process of writing a manuscript, providing valuable insights for aspiring authors. Additionally, Matt gives us a glimpse into the “7 Ways of Listening,” highlighting one method that can revolutionize how we connect with others. The conversation concludes with a heartfelt reflection on his earliest memory of money and how it shaped his perspective on financial literacy and success.

1:30 - Welcome Matt
3:30 - The Story Behind Becoming Santa Claus?
7:00 - Matt's Path to Becoming an Advisor to Financial Advisors
11:15 - Introducing Matt’s 3rd Book: Shut the F Up and Listen
19:00 - Decision-Making: Taking the Leap and Getting Started
21:45 - Overcoming Challenges: The Hardest Part of Completing a Manuscript
24:30 - Insights into the 7 Ways of Listening
33:30 - What is your first memory of money?

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Transcript

Matt Holloran 0:00

Is. It's. This is all inward reflection. Right? The. My grandmother. I open up the book by saying that my grandmother told me that, you know, you have two ears in one mouth, so you should listen twice as much as you talk. And it was really just because I talked all the time and she wanted me to shut up. And so that was the. That was kind of this. You know, again, in the writing journey, there's a lot of epiphanies that happen. And that was. The epiphany that I had was, holy crap. This all went back to when I was like, seven years old and everybody always told me to shut up.

Seth Harrison 0:36

You are tuned in to the Money Script Podcast. Today, we will share strategies to help you grow your financial literacy and improve your Money Script. I'll be back with some important announcements. Until then, enjoy the show.

Yohance Harrison 0:56

Welcome to the Money Script podcast. It's your host, Johans Harrison. So excited to be with each and every one of you today. And today, ladies and gentlemen, or shall I say boys and girls, you'll see where I'm going with that. We have on the show with us Santa Claus. Yes. And he comes bearing gifts. I'm kidding. But I'm sure it is his season because it's. It's November as of this recording, so it is that time where he's going to get the nods. For those of you that are just listening in and can't see, pause for a second to go look at the photo in the description. You'll see what I'm talking about. I have Matt on the show with us, Matt Holleran. Matt, thank you so much for joining me. By the way, you guys heard me say this over the last few weeks. I'm a fanboy today. I'm a fan. I've been a fan of Matt for a long time. Matt and I's first encounter was with him, myself, and my wife Alicia for, I don't know, two and a half hours, standing in the middle of a kind of. I won't call it a dance floor, a networking event where we just stood in the middle of it. And networking continued to happen around us, but we just stayed engaged for like two and a half hours. And it was my favorite part of that conference. Matt, thank you for joining us on the Money Script podcast.

Matt Holloran 1:13

Yes.

Matt Holloran 2:07

Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it.

Yohance Harrison 2:09

Look, Matt is now. I also had the. The scary position to be in where I first got back on the speaking circuit and I had to present before Matt. Yeah. I was like, who made this schedule? Really? I. Oh, okay. I I guess we'll see if there's any air left in the room. We'll see. But it was phenomenal to. To be able to. To. To be in the lineup with you. That. That alone was just incredible to me. So. So Matt's done over, what, a thousand podcasts? A thousand. That's a big number. Been on dozens of stages around the world. And he has. He is going to grace the Money Script podcast and talk about his new book. We are getting a premier preview here. Okay. Like I said, I'm just a fanboy, so. So with that, Matt, really quickly, housekeeping. If this is your first time listening to the Money Script show, Money Script podcast. I'm a financial advisor. I'm here to help people bring alignment between their values, their behaviors, and their financial goals. I do that by bringing you financial literacy. I let you hear from people in the industry, hear from other people that may be in your profession about their journey in their career and some of their journeys with money. So hopefully you're walking away from our podcast saying I should think more about fill in the blank, put a dollar sign beside it, and let's go. So with that, Matt set us up a little bit. Can you tell the folks a little bit how you got to be Santa Claus?

Matt Holloran 2:52

Yes.

Matt Holloran 3:37

Well, I've been working for this for a long time, just to be clear.

Yohance Harrison 3:40

Yeah, mine, I'm still working.

Matt Holloran 3:43

It's actually part of my retirement plan as a financial planner. Right. For. For me and my wife to create Santa's woods, where, you know, kids are going to be, family's going to be able to come and, you know, kind of experience Christmas. So from now, or really Thanksgiving until the beginning of the year, I have a custom knit Santa hat that I wear everywhere I go because, listen, man, I just really want to spread just a little magic into the world, and it just makes people happy. And, you know, I just, I. I really like doing that sort of stuff because I think everybody's just too damn serious, and it's nice to just add that little magic here and there.

Yohance Harrison 4:19

So, little known fact about me, Matt, I recently took on the role of the Grinch. Oh, wow. I have an entire Grinch head to head to toe. I go to my daughter's school for their Grinch play, and I'm the actual Grinch. And when we have our. Our community winter party, I'm also the Grinch there. And Santa's usually there as well, so it's usually quite a bit of shenanigans. And I do it for the same reason because no matter. Yes, he's the Grinch. He's Grinchy, but he cheers people up, people. Because remember, the Grinch's heart grew two sizes bigger that day. So I am the post Grinch and still like to have a little bit of mischief every now and then, shout out to my daughter's elementary school. I usually go and terrorize all the principal's offices, throw paper all over the place. Yeah, it's. It's. It's fun. It's all in fun. They enjoy it, and I don't have to clean it up. That's the best part.

Matt Holloran 4:51

This is bigger.

Matt Holloran 5:10

That's. Yeah. Wow. So you. You actually create havoc. See that, that's a. That, that's a. That's a little bit more. Now, you said something a second ago that I want to touch on the. The thousand podcasts. You know, you're. You're getting up there in numbers, dude. And one of the things that you know is a really great host is listening is the key to having a great, successful relationship. And this is one of the things that I really love about you. I'm going to also go back to the fact that you and me and your wife were standing on a dance floor in the middle of a huge network, totally ignored all of the other people, and some of them were trying to get us. Our. Get our attention, too. And that's one of the things that was really neat, was the dynamic of people having the time to talk and feel listened to. It's one of the reasons why I think you and I built such a good relationship. That's still. I mean, that was years ago, right? That was almost three years ago now that we. We, you know, hung out on that rooftop. So.

Yohance Harrison 6:08

Yeah, no, that. That was beautiful. And I knew right then I said, I want to be his. I told my wife as we were walking back to our hotel room, I said, I want to be his friend. Oh, my goodness. Like, that was. I. Like, we missed. I mean, we only got the hors d'oeuvres that were passed, so if there was anything on the outskirts, we missed it. We only got the wine that was brought directly to us. So it was. But. Oh, man, that was incredible. That was incredible. So now, Matt, you. You said financial advisor. So a lot of times when I have other financial advisors on the show, we're doing this whole between two advisors kind of thing. It's my idea of our listeners get to peek in on a conversation that advisors just might have if they were just having to bump into each other at the Copier as we would when we all shared offices. Talk to us a little about your experience as a financial advisor. I know you're more a recovering financial advisor, I think, is the.

Matt Holloran 7:00

No, actually a recovering therapist. So a lot of people are really surprised about the fact that I've actually never been a licensed financial services professional. I got into the industry in 2006 after I had a brief stint as a therapist and realized I wasn't very good at it and it wasn't something I was going to be able to do for the rest of my life. And so I started consulting in financial services where, and you'll appreciate this, where I actually had two screens now, this was in 2006, and Investopedia was open up on the other screen because I didn't even know what I was talking. I didn't know what you guys were talking about. Like, I didn't know the difference between a 401k and a 403b and a stock bond mutual fund, Asia. Nothing. I knew nothing. And so. But my job back then was to walk advisors through what was called this blueprinting process, which was based off of a life coaching system that I actually helped build. And it was a lot of fun. And then, you know, I've coached probably, probably 900 advising offices. So, you know, offices just like yours.

Matt Holloran 8:09

And you know, and now, you know, I run a. A very successful podcasting company that focuses on financial advisors. And I had this epiphany about,

Matt Holloran 8:20

about a year ago, I had just gotten done interviewing somebody and this was a high profile. Somebody was much more famous. As, you know, in our industry, there's a lot of really famous people. And I got done. And he goes, man, that was an amazing podcast. I can't believe how smooth that was. And I went back and I listened to it. Yo, man, I didn't say, it's like three sentences the whole show. But, you know, I held the space and you know, I was doing some non verbal stuff to just make sure that he kept going. But my questions were meaningful enough where he just kept getting deeper and deeper. And so I came back to him about two months later and I said, hey, man, you know, you know, what did you think about the show? Show? You know, did you get any feedback? And he's like, matt, I said things on your show I haven't ever said on anybody else's show. And that was this major epiphany that was like, okay, there's something there. And as a therapist, I learned what's called active listening, which a Lot of people think is like, this amazing skill. And I started deconstructing, and I actually came up with seven different types of listening. And now it. I call this engaged listening. So that's what my. Yeah,

Yohance Harrison 9:29

Am I doing one of them right now?

Matt Holloran 9:33

you. One of the things that you do really well is you hold space well. And. And I've always. I've noticed that about you. And, you know, it's not one of those things where I'm like, you know what, your house, you're holding space right now, but you do that very well. And I know that people who are in your proximity engage. Listening is a lot about intention. And if you're intending so, you know, in a lot of professional situations, I'm trying. I'm trying to. My intention is to persuade. My intention is to sell you something. My. You know, and so you have to really pay close attention to your intentions when you're listening to somebody, because even if you're not saying anything, things are happening in your body. Facial expressions, gestures can mean a lot in our. We're viewing those micro expressions in those basically micro things all the time. We just don't know that they're registering. And that's also part of this whole idea.

Yohance Harrison 10:28

That's true. That's actually why I said, let me engage the camera on my podcast instead of just having the voice, because I was. I was purely voice for quite some time. And I think talking to you as well. I believe you just told me, just turn on the camera, man. Just turn on the camera. And I said, okay, fine, I'll turn on the camera. But then I'm a bit of a geek about it. So, like, well, I'm gonna go get my really cool camera because I'm a photographer at heart, and hence I have this great image, but late. Apple, Apple, I'm talking to you. Your latest update has not gotten along well with Canon. Y'all fix that. I know Apple just wants me to use my iPhone. Yeah. More on that later. So let's. I. I really. I want to know about this book. So first, again, I said, I'm a fanboy bit here. Is this your first book?

Matt Holloran 11:08

That's right, dude.

Matt Holloran 11:21

It is not. So this is my third book. The first one that is actually personal at all. So my first book was the Social Media Handbook for Financial Advisors published by Bloomberg Finance. So I was paid to do that book. The industry was not ready for that book. Unfortunately, it was in 2012 when the book was released.

Yohance Harrison 11:41

Wait, we didn't even. Do we even have Instagram in 2012. Oh, we did. We're still taking pictures of our food.

Matt Holloran 11:46

That's absolutely correct. And very few people were using social media correctly, especially, you know, in financial services. And then my second book was basically like a cookbook that I wrote with a friend of mine. The execution of it, unfortunately, was rather poor. That was a publisher issue. We ended up getting like a thousand books, and they were all wrong, and I couldn't really.

Yohance Harrison 12:06

For a cookbook, that's that. Wait a minute.

Matt Holloran 12:10

They really jacked it up, dude.

Yohance Harrison 12:12

I'm not supposed to laugh about that. That's not funny.

Matt Holloran 12:14

But it really hurt because I was really excited about it. So. So this one, it's called Shut the F up and Listen. And the overall idea is. So these are very personal stories about my listening journey and the different things that have happened to me that made me wake up and realize I'm a professionally trained therapist. You know, I'm a professional interviewer. Like, I study the greatest interviewers of all times. I really realized that very few people were putting things together in a way that you could also then practice. So everybody's like, well, I listen all the time. No, you don't. You hear. There's a big difference. And so that's one of the things that I, I really wanted, I wanted to write in this book. And the really crazy thing, Johannes, is I, I brought together a team of friends to help me execute this book. Graphic designers, interior layout. And then my best friend is a Ph.D. creative writing professor. His name is Derek Pollard, and he read the book when I first drafted. He's like, dude, I don't know these stories. I've known you since I was 16. I was like, yeah, dude. I just, because I don't, I'm usually on the receiving end of conversation. I don't usually volunteer these things. Yes.

Matt Holloran 13:32

So, yeah, so that, that's the, that's the foundation.

Yohance Harrison 13:35

I, I can empathize with you there because I do a lot of listening in my profession and I try to incorporate some stories to help get my point across. And a lot of the times those stories are personal. But even just in our share that we had earlier today, other than my daughter's school mates and their parents, no one else knows that I was a Grinch. I mean, now a few extra hundred people may know.

Matt Holloran 13:51

Yeah.

Yohance Harrison 14:06

And, and, and so I, I, I get, I was started thinking about times where I've shared something with even a client that I've known for 10, 15 years. And they look at me shocked, like, well, I have no idea about that, about you. And it's just because I'm usually the one doing most of the listening. So I'm curious with the title of the book. It sounds like you are talking to yourself as much as you're talking to us.

Matt Holloran 14:36

Oh, yeah. This. This is. It's. It. This is all inward reflection. Right. The. My grandmother. I open up the book by saying that my grandmother told me that, you know, you have two ears in one mouth, so you should listen twice as much as you talk. Was really just because I talked all the time and she wanted me to shut up. And so that was the. That was kind of this. You know, again, in the writing journey, there's a lot of epiphanies that happen. And that. That was. The epiphany that I had was, holy crap. This all went back to when I was like, seven years old and everybody always told me to shut up.

Matt Holloran 15:09

But it is. It. It's really. So the. The foundation of engaged listening is actually based off a Buddhist monk. So his name is Thich Nhat Hanh, and he created something called Engaged Buddhism because he was really tired of all of these Buddhists who, like, would just sit around and not do anything.

Yohance Harrison 15:27

And he was like, they're not meditating. I thought that was meditation. No, well, right.

Matt Holloran 15:31

Well, there. There are meditative components of it. Absolutely. But he said at some point you need to get up and you need to maybe help some people. And so he created this entire thing called Engaged Buddhism. And I want listening to be a more engaged process. A lot of times everybody thinks it's just very passive, and it really isn't. It's wonderfully active, and it's a great way to build relationships. Well, I don't know if your listeners would agree with this, but research right now is saying that we have epidemic levels of loneliness.

Yohance Harrison 16:02

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, We. We've talked about on the show. We've had a couple of psychotherapists on the show. And yeah, we talked about that.

Matt Holloran 16:12

Especially on Social Right or really in the world. Even out, everybody's like, screaming into the void, hoping that somebody's going to listen to make a connection. Because when you're lonely, there's a lack of connection. And so we know that what the solution is is that people show that they're listening. But, dude, nobody's teaching anybody how to freaking listen. They just expect that you know how to do it. Well, that's not the case. So. So that's a huge piece of this. And I've got some other things that are Coming down the road. I actually have a deck of 52 playing cards that were. That have questions on the back that help you learn how to increase the depth of the con, remind you of the skills I've got. This is more of a system than a book because this is like a personal mission for me. I know what it's like to be lonely. I think we all do. And I also know that how I've been able to not feel lonely is to be in somebody's presence who I know is really listening, really cares and is there for me instead of being there for themselves to. And I think that's just a life lesson that it's kind of an undercurrent of the book.

Yohance Harrison 17:22

I wanted to invite you, Matt, when you have some time, I will send you the link. My oldest, Seth, film degree, got a film degree and so while in school he made a movie, full feature length film called Don't Talk, Just Listen. Oh, and the main character doesn't say any words until the last scene of the play or play of the movie. And the whole story just moves around him and every. And it's his some. His comedic timing was great because it's about a student that's in college and there's a part where a administrator is talking to him and he asks him a question, a really thought provoking question and he gives it some thought and he goes to answer and the phone rings. So he answers the phone, he says hold on. And then, you know, so a lot, this happens a lot throughout and he never really gets to say anything. So it, it's amazing that you and my son apparently were in the same universe. Thinking, thinking that through. Where did you decide that the best medium for this was going to be to write a book? When did that happen? How did it happen? And give you a little reason of why I'm asking. Number one, selfishly, I would like to be an author. So all of the authors I've had, I've been looking to see how they were motivated to really get going. And two, I know a lot of my listeners also want to start something and a lot of times we sit on what they like to call the writer's block, whether it be for a book or it'd be for a business idea, what have you. So can you talk to us a, a little about your decision making to say, okay, this is what it's going to be and this is how I'm going to get started.

Matt Holloran 17:53

Yeah.

Matt Holloran 19:13

Well, it, it really,

Matt Holloran 19:17

it really just, it was like a fire that was burning inside of me that I just, I started having these stories in my life that all of the sudden started really connecting. And as you said earlier, I mean, I speak publicly. That's part of my job here at my day job at Proudmouth. And so I would. I started weaving these stories in and realizing that, you know, the power of storytelling is really, really amazing. To be fully honest, I didn't really care if there was a print copy of the book. I just really wanted to do the audiobook because I'm a radio guy, I'm a podcasting guy, and so I am now I'm almost done. By the time this comes out, I will probably have. Have finished the audiobook. But. And I'm reading. So I'm reading this book. And when I wrote it, I wrote it with reading it in mind. So when I went to the writer's retreat, which is something that I think all anybody who wants to be.

Yohance Harrison 20:15

Yeah, say that again. I don't know that term. That's a new one on me. A what?

Matt Holloran 20:19

A writing retreat. So I, I met with my editor. We found a neutral location, which luckily he was in Florida. So I flew down to Florida. We, I. We Airbnb a cottage for three days, and all we did was bust the book out. So, I mean, I had loose pieces, I had lots of different things. Day one, we mapped it out. Day two, we started putting things together. Day three, I was reading the book out loud and he was making changes. But that's what a really great editor does, right? In my. My editor, Derek. I could not. I mean, luckily I've known him for a really long time, but he's so disciplined in the process. This is probably his 10th or 15th book that he's helped publish. He's a poet by training. And so the way that he chose words and allowed them to flow together to make me sound really smart, dude was freaking awesome.

Yohance Harrison 21:11

So don't say it like that. Say it like this.

Matt Holloran 21:15

And it worked. And it really worked. And then all of a sudden, I had a book. I mean, it's not all of the sudden. We. We finished the manuscripts in ape. March, May,

Matt Holloran 21:28

went to design in June, July, the layout in the book cover was done. And then since then, I've just been tweaking things and, you know, getting it uploaded to Amazon and all of these places is not a simple process.

Yohance Harrison 21:44

Are you the definition of self published or do you have a. Oh, okay, okay.

Matt Holloran 21:49

Yeah, this. So the difference between being self published and being commissioned basically to write a book is I don't have A book deal with a publisher. This is actually all published through KDP, which is Amazon, and then another company called IngramSpark. And so I created my own team. If you're hired or if a publishing company wants to take on your manuscript, they have all of these people in place. Graphic designers, layout editors, you know, copywriters, proofreaders, all of us. I actually, I brought all of those people together for this book.

Yohance Harrison 22:21

Specifically, what would you say was the, the toughest part of getting the manuscript done? I mean, was there a place where you were just stuck? Did you ever have that time where you just threw everything out and said, starting over.

Yohance Harrison 22:36

What do you think was the hardest part?

Matt Holloran 22:39

Saying it was done.

Yohance Harrison 22:42

So not going back and tweaking and tweaking. And

Yohance Harrison 22:47

so how'd you do it?

Matt Holloran 22:49

I, I, I. So

Matt Holloran 22:53

part of my own personal belief system is the idea of detachment is not actually being massively attached to specific things. And when I get mental triggers that I'm being very attached to something that is a behavioral thing for me, that I know that I need to overcome that level of attachment. And so I just turned it over to Derek and I said, okay, I can't touch this anymore. You do you, when you think it's done, you give it to me and I'm gonna read it. If there are anything that I have strong, strong feelings about will change. Then he gave me back the, the edited manuscript. And I was like, this is it. We're done. We're done. And he was like, whoa, really? Are you sure? I was like, yep. This is, this is what I needed it to say. It's not a, it's not a long book. I didn't write a novel. You know, it's a hundred and

Matt Holloran 23:47

one hundred and some odd pages. I don't even know how many pages it is. 150 pages.

Yohance Harrison 23:53

Oh, so it's like a, I mean, if you wanted to. It's like a couple day read, and.

Matt Holloran 23:58

Most people read it in an evening.

Yohance Harrison 24:00

Okay, all right. Even that. Okay.

Matt Holloran 24:02

In, in reading it is step one. Step two is then going back and doing the exercises that I told you you need to practice. The seven types of listening is, is that, that's, that's where, that's where the magic happens. Right? So.

Yohance Harrison 24:14

Okay. All right. So again, fanboy, here. I'm hungry. Can we, can we go through one of the seven? You don't have to do all seven. Could, could you, I mean, you, you mentioned a couple of them, but can you, can you educate me wise?

Matt Holloran 24:27

So my, my favorite one is, is so we'll, we'll talk about just listening to listen and the, the, the idea, the art of listening. And I'm going to give you, your listeners, the exercise, because this is one of my favorite freaking things to do in the whole wide world.

Yohance Harrison 24:42

Great. That's what we were getting. That's what we were trying to get to get a little freebie here. Let's get it.

Matt Holloran 24:45

Yes, yes. So what you're going to do is you're going to go with somebody, okay? So. So generally, somebody you're really, really close to, a really good friend, somebody who knows you really well.

Matt Holloran 24:57

And what you're going to do is you're going to go to a public place, right? Restaurants are fantastic for this. Airports are really interesting to do this, but not everybody goes to airports as much as I do or that, you know, they go, you know, to restaurants. And so, so generally you'll find a restaurant or a coffee shop. And what you're going to do is you both are going to choose somebody to eavesdrop on. Okay? Now, I'm not saying you're going to be creepy, but this is how you practice listening, because there's going to be a lot of other things going on. Plates clanging, you know, wait staff interrupting you. I mean, not, you know, doing their job. Right. You know, taking your order. You're going to have food in front of you. There's going to be lots of people. So you're going to both choose somebody to listen to. Okay? And then you're going to answer together. After you fit, you finish the exercise. You know, you generally do. It might be for 10 minutes as you're going to answer these questions. Number one, what is the nature of the relationship?

Matt Holloran 25:56

So you're going to try to figure out, are they on a date? Are they married? Are they friends, Are they workers? Right. So you're. That's number one. Number two, who talked the most? Okay. Number three, what were they actually talking about? And I'm not talking about the words that they were using, but was there subtext to the conversation? Right. And then the fourth one was,

Matt Holloran 26:21

what did I miss? So you're going to ask your friend that, Right? So you're each going to answer those three questions, and then you're going to go ahead with that last one and say, well, what, what, what did you hear that I didn't hear? And that's how you do. You go back and forth. This is so flipping powerful to do. First off, it's so much fun to do.

Yohance Harrison 26:39

It is fun, I admit it is a lot of fun. I admit that earlier in Alicia and I's relationship, when we were just dating and didn't have when, when our dates weren't the only time that we could get some alone time and talk about things without a child interrupting, a mother in law, a dog. So now when we go out, we spend most of the time talking. But when we were dating, we would just play the game of see with if other people are dating too. So. And we just call it people watching. And we, you know, make up the stories about what's going on. But sometimes just kind of eavesdropping their conversation. Never realized what we were doing was practicing some active listening.

Matt Holloran 27:17

That's right.

Yohance Harrison 27:19

That's a fun one. So listeners, have some fun with that. Feel free, come back to me, let me know the funniest things you heard. Keep it PG13.13.

Matt Holloran 27:31

You got to keep a PG13. It's amazing what people say in public.

Yohance Harrison 27:35

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. I actually, I will admit I like to do that sometimes have my headphones in and nothing will be playing. So people think that I'm not listening when I am. Oh, just the things you learn in your own neighborhood. It's like, well, really. Okay, noted.

Matt Holloran 27:59

One of the other things that I like doing in that exercise is also paying attention to different things like pace, pentameter, vocal inflection, volume. Those are things as a, as a listener. Like if somebody's getting louder, there's a reason for that. Somebody speeds up. It's generally because they're excited and they're trying to get a point across. Somebody slows down. A lot of times it's because they don't feel like you're listening. And then my favorite one is when people get quiet.

Matt Holloran 28:30

If you want to take control of a conversation, talk at half the volume because nobody's prepared for that. And it also means they have to lean in to, to hear what you're saying. And especially if you don't feel like you're being heard. Halfing your volume is a hugely powerful way to really get that person's attention. You don't have to do it for a long time, but do it long enough where they realize something has changed. Our brain registers auditory stuff way better than we think it does. In fact, when I was in graduate school, I think I had shared this with you previously, but my, my master's thesis was on the reduction of auditory hallucinations suffered from schizophrenia. So my whole focus was working with adults with severe and persistent mental illness. And auditory hallucinations is what my master thesis was on. And the Broca's area is this humongous area of your brain that processes all of the audio that comes in. And it's really, really flipping active. And once you start training it, it's even more active and you can really hear so much more that's going on that a lot of times because, and I'm kind of punctuate this with a very simple statement. Most people are listening to respond. They're not listening to listen. And if you're listening to respond, you don't hear what's being said. So

Matt Holloran 29:55

that is.

Yohance Harrison 29:56

Yes, I've, I've, I've said that. And to our parents out there, thank you for that, Matt. To our parents out there. I've Learned with my 7 year old that when my voice goes a little bit lower and a little bit more methodic when I want her to do something, she listens when I'm talking fast, hurry up, I need you to put your shoes on. And, and I'm getting excited. It's not registering. But when I go, Amira, we please put shoes on. We need to leave. All of a sudden she's moving. I'm like, where in from having two children, my oldest, it was the agitation, agitation. And that's. I would elevate and try to get things done and not understand why he's not doing them. And you know, as a parent, we learn. I said, yeah, maybe let me try something different. Let me try to reduce my agitation. Speak in a softer voice, a calmer one, a little bit more methodic. And all what I notice happens, she starts looking at me because she needs now to read my lips so that she can see what I'm saying. Instead of whatever she was doing on her iPad or her coloring, whatever she was doing that was taking her attention, now she's looking at me and she's listening versus yelling. She'll just keep her head down. So. So yes, it works on kids too. I've learned. Well, at least mine. Try it on yours. Let me know how that goes.

Yohance Harrison 31:27

Matt, one of the things that we like to ask all of our guests on the show to get back into the realm of finances a bit here. And by the way, listening. Actually, let me back up a second. Everything that we've talked about today with the active listening and I'm sure in your book, we cannot wait to get our hands on it. For all of our listeners out there that are actively participating in money dates with their spouse, this is a great money date activity. Okay. Especially if you're if you have your money date in a public place, which I know some of you do, because you report it back. Report it back to me. Let me know that. Spend the first 10 minutes doing that exercise and then see how that improves your ability to listen to each other as you're talking about your dreams, your goals, your financial mistakes of the previous month, what you're going to do better where you need help, because it'll get you in that space of listening, because I know a lot of you. I know because I've met with you. You're listening to your spouse's money date concerns, waiting so you can respond and tell them what to do. Okay. Versus listening just to listen. Because sometimes they just wanted to be heard. They want to talk it through. Okay. And sitting down with you at dinner is cheaper than sitting down with me. I will say that as well, because I'll listen. You can tell me about all your financials. I'll listen. It's just gonna cost you. So back to our question that we like to ask all of our guests to come on the show. Again with the money script. The idea is that. Excuse me. The idea of money script is that you have these preconceived notions as an adult about money that were developed a lot of times on accident. They. They happen through just osmosis, or that's just what you saw, what you. What you did. You. You did. You do what you do because of what you did. So we want to help people start to break that apart. And so what we encourage people to do is to think about their first memory of money. So, Matt, can you tell the audience what your first memory of money is?

Matt Holloran 31:53

Yeah.

Matt Holloran 32:45

Yeah.

Matt Holloran 33:17

Yeah.

Matt Holloran 33:29

Yeah. I don't know if you're ready for this one.

Yohance Harrison 33:34

I am sitting down.

Matt Holloran 33:35

Okay. I appreciate that. So my first memory, money. I was about 7 years old, and my parents had just recently gotten a divorce, and we had to move in with my grandparents, which was not cool. They were very weird, distant people that I didn't really have a deep relationship with. And I went into my mom's room,

Matt Holloran 34:03

as you do, Right. As a kid, and there was a penny sitting above the door, like, on the threshold on the trim. Right. And my mom was in the room, and I said, hey, mom, can I have that penny? And she said, no, you can't. And I was like, well, why? It's just a penny. She's like, that means we're not totally broke.

Yohance Harrison 34:27

Okay. I should have been standing, so I can.

Matt Holloran 34:31

So. That. That is the talk about a money Script. And so, you know, one of the neat things about being a therapist is you have to learn how to deal with your own stuff in order to help other people. And money is a huge. And always has been, because that's my first memory of money. A huge trigger for me. Right. And it's something that I have to consciously pay attention to in order to not have it affect me on a regular basis. I told my financial advisor that story, by the way, and he was like, well, I can tell you, that's the first time I've ever heard that. I was like, well, yeah, because most people who use financial advisors haven't come on the journey that. That my wife and I have come. You said something, too. I have to rewind. And I don't mean to hijack this, but. The. The. The idea that you had about, you know, going out and when you're doing these money dates. Right. There's a chapter in my book called Listening to Hold Space. And. And that's where you learn how to shut the f up and listen and give the other person all of the time that they need to say the things that they need. And what you'll find is, if you do it correctly, it takes a lot less time than you think it will if you truly just hold that space. And then when you're done. And in. In. In therapeutic group techniques, we used to do something called the talking stick. This is a very powerful relational component. And if you don't feel heard, we actually would give people a stick. I had it in my office, and when I was doing couples therapy, you were only allowed to talk if you were holding the stick. And when you got done, you would physically hand the stick to somebody else. And I would make them say, okay, my time is done. Now it's time for me to listen. And those sorts of things are just so unbelievably powerful. And the other thing to Johannes is when you're eavesdropping on other people, you're gonna be totally blown away on how many people are talking about money because it's such a powerful emotive thing.

Yohance Harrison 34:32

Whoa.

Yohance Harrison 35:26

No, please.

Yohance Harrison 36:44

So, yeah, I once eavesdropped on a conversation standing in the grocery store. Again, headphones in. So people don't think I hear them, and I see them doing the. We can't afford this. We can't afford this. We gotta put something. You know, they're coming. I'm behind them. They're coming up next. And I could see the pain in the voice. And they didn't have any. There's no Chips Ahoy cookies in there. It was. It was their staple items. You know, it was. There was no excess, really. As I looked at their cartoon and I remember just saying, headphones in still. I was like, just put theirs on mine. And they looked and they're like, what are you doing? I was like, my music wasn't playing. I heard your conversation. I'll take care of it. Have a great day. But that was just from watching them have. And they weren't saying a lot of words. It was the tone. It was the facial expressions. And we're looking at two adults, like, talk about how we can only get one gallon of milk, not two.

Matt Holloran 37:09

Yeah.

Matt Holloran 37:49

Like, right.

Yohance Harrison 37:50

Apparently you got. And I could tell from what was in the cart they had kids, you know, they had, like, the kids cereals and stuff like that, like, whatever. So I just was reminded that I got a little tearful now. Oh, okay. Which reminds me, I need to do that again. It's that time of year and I get to do that again. So I'm going to go do some active listening in the grocery store. Just don't go to the grocery store that often because groceries are delivered these days. So now I have to find a reason to go to grocery store. Matt, I want to thank you so much for spending some time with us on the Money Script podcast. It was great to learn just about your process with the book. I was exciting to learn about the new book. I can't wait to get the new book. By the way, if you want to get your hands on a copy of the book, I'm confident that Matt's going to find a way for a few of them to show up at my doorstep. So please get at me. I'm happy to forward on a copy to you as my gift to you. Just. Just tell me you want to get a copy of the book and I'll be happy to forward it to you when it arrives on my doorstep. We have just a few more shows between now and the end of the year. And again, I've been interviewing all of my favorite people. So thank you to all of you. Thank you, Diana. Thank you to everyone else. My brain just jumped out on everyone else that's been on the show lately. But thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I really appreciate you coming and spending some time with us here on the Money Script podcast. And as always, I'd like to ask you for one last favor. Do someone else a favor and forward them this episode. Say, hey, I probably wasn't listening to you last time we were talking, but here's this thing about listening

Matt Holloran 38:39

Yes.

Yohance Harrison 39:27

that I think we can both learn from. And until next time, take care.

Seth Harrison 39:45

I'm back. Wasn't that a great show? I hope you learned something. I know I did. Now before you go trying anything you heard today, remember it is not intended to be specific tax or legal advice. If you need that, go see a CPA or an attorney. If you would like any complimentary consultation with a knowledgeable advisor, visit moneyscript.com and schedule a 15 minute consultation. Want Johans to come speak at your next event? Go to the MoneyScript website for that too. Of course, if you're watching on YouTube, make sure to like comment, subscribe and click the bell for notifications. MoneyScript Wealth Management is a registered financial advisory service in multiple states. Want to learn more? Get the full disclosure on our website moneyscript.com.